It All Depends on the Way You WANT to See It...
During our last meeting in class, we discussed the ideas of implicit and explicit messages. For example, we looked at, The Giving Tree, a children’s book written by Shel Silverstein. I, personally, had never read this book, so when I first heard it in this class I found it to be a well written children’s book with multiple meanings behind it, however, none of the meaning that came to mind had any type of negative connotation. Once discussing the negative aspects that can be derived from this story one obtains a completely different outlook. I do believe that it is important to know all possible messages of a book, in a teaching aspect, because there may be children within our classrooms someday that will pick up on them. I do not feel that it is okay to think that just because we, as children, did not obtain these feelings or messages about said text that no other children will either. As we grow older we are exposed to more and we realize that there are many things in this world with a double meaning, but everyone has their point of view on which meaning they prefer. It is also beneficial to know some background about the author of the books that one shares with their classroom because then they are able to acquire a sense of the way in which this author wants to get his message across. If every person looked into hidden messages from books and from movies as well, I do believe that fairy tales, and young children’s imaginations would slowly diminish. Even in the Disney movies that we watched and loved as children, many of us now know that there were hidden pictures and messages throughout the movie and on the cover of some as well. However, now that we know some of these extremely unfortunate instances in the Disney movies, many of us have mixed feelings. I do agree that what is shown in these films is highly inappropriate for children's moves, however they are still classic movies that can guide a child’s imagination to a far off place. I would still show these movies to my children someday because of this fact, and if they happen to pick up some of these messages then they can be addressed accordingly; however this is still solely my opinion. To tie this back into class, I do still think that even though the book that Silverstein wrote does have hidden messages that one may not notice until they get older, or at all, it is still a good book for a child with strong message. In all, I believe that nearly everything that one sees, especially in the world today, has more than one message or meaning behind it, and it is up to each individual to decide what they feel is best for themselves, their children, and their students.
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I agree that books as well as movies have several hidden meanings behind them. When we read The Giving Tree in class on Wednesday it was my first time hearing the story. I was somewhat surprised at the issues that were brought up and I wondered if as children we would have subconsciously picked up on the meanings. Children may not be able to express what they are feeling and not know what these stories mean until later in life, but I do believe that they are able to absorb the meanings of the stories. I was discussing with my childhood friend about the lecture about Shel Silverstein and The Giving Tree. She has a baby and was considering reading the story to him. She mentioned that while earlier in her life, as a child reading the story she had no idea of the hidden aspects of the story. She has recently read the book in prospect to read to her child and was appalled at what the story was like; it was nothing the way she remembered. I think as young adults and possible future educators we need to keep these meanings in mind when relaying information to children. Young kids are at an impressionable age and they will pretty much believe anything tells them. I'm not saying to not read The Giving Tree to children, but I think we need to closely monitor and review what we are teaching our children.
I do not know if I am the only one that sees this, but I never once would think about the explicit and especially not the implicit meanings behind books when I was being read to as a child or even while reading as a child. To this day I am a very literal person and see books and movies how they are. I saw The Giving Tree as a friendship movie and that friends would do anything for each other. I never once thought that it meant that women are nurturing or that men control women. It just bothers me because people try tearing apart a book and give it all sorts of meanings.
Even it I wrote something there would be someone out there that would give my story some ridiculous implicit meanings that I was not even trying to imply. When listening i class I was dumbfounded to the amount of meanings that this particular story supposedly had. Why can't it just be a story about friends, instead of something that some consider a huge stretch?
I agree that we must pay close attention to what we may be unintentionally teaching children through story books. I believe that there are many hidden messages in a book that might not be apparent at first reading. I do caution some restraint however. In class we saw many things in the Giving Tree that would outrage many. However not everyone saw these messages If someone else with other values read this book they might be angry about other things in the book that they saw and we did not. The way we read books is different for each of us based on our own experiences. One can never see all the ways a book might be interpreted and prevent offending everyone. You can always find something wrong about a book if you look hard enough. It's important to think about these things and try to be considerate of others and what you're teaching but don't look too hard for flaws.
"sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" -- attributed to Sigmund Freud
There are many points that I agree with in this blog post. I think that it is silly to think that mentally children are able to come up with the meanings we came up with for the book the Giving Tree. The only thing that bothered me in our class discussion is the fact that people think they shouldn’t be reading these books or showing their children Disney movies. As an only child Disney Movies were a major point of my childhood, I would watch them over and over. I don’t think there is anything wrong with watching Disney Princess movies I think it allows children to escape reality and expand their imagination. Personally as a child Cinderella was one of my favorite movies and never once did I get the impression that she was self reliant on a man, to me she was just a fictional character in a movie. Even now as an adult when I watch that movie I still don’t think of her as being weak or dependent on a man. I feel that people are sometimes just too sensitive we need to let kids be kids for as long as they can, because before long they are going to be sitting in a class room discussing the same perverse hidden meanings in their favorite childhood movies.
I think that it is a good idea for parents and teachers to know the hidden meaning in the books that their students and children read. But I feel as if most kids would not get the hidden message behind each story, at least for me while growing up I did not realize many things pointed out in the giving tree or in the disney movies that you discussed, until i was in middle school or older. When I did find out I felt cheated out of an imagination and discussed in some of the things that I saw.
I agree with you on the fact that if the student or child asks about the hidden meaning that it can be discussed, but if not i feel as if the teacher and parent should just make and ensure the child that there is no hidden meaning.
I agree that everything in this world has multiple messages, if not full-out subliminal ones. Maybe we as adults absorb the subliminal messages in advertisements. Maybe children absorb the ones in their books and movies. Personally, I think adults are much more likely to see these messages than kids are. When I was a toddler watching Lion King, I didn't even know what sex was, let alone how to spell it or what it meant. There is no way I would have seen it faintly in the sky as Simba collapsed to the ground!! (see this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skD2gyP1cCs)
Movies and books aren't the only things sending us subliminal messages. An incredible amount of ads carry them as well. (see this link: http://www.artistmike.com/Temp/SubliminalAd.html) Even some children's toys have them! This toy, found at a dollar store, resembles a Nazi Swastika. (see http://www.icanhasmotivation.com/cool-toys-sending-subliminal-messages-to-your-kids/)
With that said, would I say that advertising companies are brainwashing us all? No. Would I prohibit a child from buying that toy because it sort of looks like it could be a swastika? No. Will I keep my children from watching Disney movies? No. Although these subtle symbols can be found, I believe that it is highly unlikely that a child would pick up on any of them. Some of the examples are, to be honest, pretty far-fetched.
If a child sees it, at least you know you can use it to teach. Otherwise, these symbols aren't more than the petty work of bored illustrators or ambitious advertisers. Some of them might even be accidental. Either way, I don't think many kids will see them. If they do, it's up to us to explain them in a way that will teach them a thing or two about life.
Upon reading The Giving Tree in class, I did begin to see the negative stereotypes that were addressed in our class discussion. I agree with this post in that how a child interprets a book is all up to how a child sees the world. So if the child is aware of said stereotypes, they may pick up on them. However, in our class discussion it seemed as though many of our peers were blissfully unaware of the negative underlying context throughout the story.
I agree that as teachers, we should be aware of these stereotypes when presenting the books to our students; however, I do not think it is necessary to abandon these books completely. The books, such as The Giving Tree, should be available for children to read in the classroom if they desire.
Furthermore, we must also remember that not every part of the book, and children’s book like this, was stereotypically insulting, and it continues to instill the forgiving nature of love that we hope every child acquires.
Moreover, as teachers, we will be faced with the question: Does the positive, overall message of a children’s book outweigh the stereotypical messages we do not desire to expose our students to? The answer will vary, book to book. In my opinion however, I think the positive aspects of many children’s books outweigh the negatives—the negative connotations students might pick up on are something I would be willing to risk, in most cases. Likewise, if students were to pick up on some stereotypes, it is just another opportunity to teach.
I see where you are coming from, but on the Disney aspect, and the book "The Giving Tree" these books are suppose to entertain kids. You are only a kid for so long, so why not enjoy your childhood. When you start to grow up, these are the things we are realizing everyday. There is only so much time to be a kid and enjoy the pure entertainment which it is suppose to be for (books or the movies). I think that if we find the negative in books as well as movies that are suppose to be for pure enjoyment, we are robbing the kids of their childhood. They are the ones that are going to have different outlook at it because they are at such a young age. We, as adults, can look at such things closer and find that double meaning that we are looking for. I just do not think it is right to say that Disney is a completely different thing. When I was a kid, I did not know that Disney had all these double meanings plus hidden pictures, and frankly, I would not want to know that. I very much enjoyed Disney and would not want "looking into too much" to run my child Disney experience.
In contrast, I see where people are coming from. I do think that there are some books out there that have a very blunt message, positive or negative. I do think that by reading these books and breaking them down, we understand them more, and hopefully make the children understand it better as well.
I agree that books and movies both have hidden meanings behind them. However, that doesn't change the actual meanings that authors intend for children to get out of books.
I read The Giving Tree as a child and I can say that I never thought about any of the meanings other than the positive ones. As a child you don't even think about any of the negative meanings or anything other than the obvious ones, it just doesn't normally cross children's minds.
I don't believe that anything should be changed about the books read to children. All children are going to interpret the books that they read or have read to them in their own way no matter what. We need to let kids be kids for as long as they can and enjoy all the literature and movies that go with their childhood.
At some point, the hidden meanings and negative things in this world need to just be forgotten. You can't tear a part everything and try to find the negatives. Just embrace the positives like we are supposed to and allow the children to do the same. If you try to find the hidden meanings then nothing could be shown or read to children, which I know is not what the world wants.
I had the same reaction to the implicit messages that were being discussed in class about The Giving Tree. I had read this book many times as a kid growing up and not once, did I pick up on how much it portrays women in a negative light. Children don't place focus on abstract thinking or on critical analysis. Rather purely reading a book for entertainment. Even when we were reading through it a second time, myself being 20 years old, didn't pick up on these messages until I was directed or someone suggested certain points. I agree that hidden meanings shouldn't be the main focus when you’re picking out a story to read to a little child. It should be about how at their own personal level of thinking a particular story will affect them. With this being said, it makes me wonder why authors including Disney movies would incorporate such negative hidden messages. Is it for the adults’ benefit, their own entertainment or are they merely unaware of the different ways their writing can be interpreted? While being aware of these messages and their implications by being older I don't think it will greatly harm children who only see the pretty pictures and have a surface approach to stories such as The Giving Tree.
I agree with what Jeff argued. I am also the type of person that doesn’t look too far into a book or a movie. I also do not like it that people are always trying to pull out the negative aspects of a book or a movie. The Giving Tree seemed like such a cute story to me until we talked about it in class. I think some people are looking into it too much. I really do not think that when children read this, they will subconsciously believe that it was about men controlling women.
I really think it depends on how you see it. If you want to find a dirty/bad meaning out of a story, you can. The way we read books and watch movies is different for each individual. It depends on what the person wants to get out of it and what he/she is looking for in the first place.
Even though we have heard about the flaws in some Disney movies, I do not think they should be kept away from children. These messages are so well hidden you have to be looking for them to notice them. I think we are definitely looking too far into this problem and still believe that the overall story line to these Disney movies and some children’s books are innocent.
I totally agree with this. As it says in our book, text is not alive on its own but only through the interaction between the reader and the text. People always bring their previous experiences to everything when they're interpreting. The author's intent can at times diminish completely in favor of the reader's interpretation. Maybe Shel Silverstein did intend to bring women down with The Giving Tree, but to me, that story will always be one that details so eloquently a mother's love. It's all up to you as the reader :)
The Giving Tree has been one of my favorite books since I was a child. I perceived it as book about a great friendship who helped one another out when they needed it. My roommate and TE 348, however, got me thinking otherwise...
Last semester my roommate wrote a paper on the underlying messages in The Giving Tree. Similar to what we explored in class, she discussed themes such as "women are here to serve", "abuse of women is okay", "men never grow up", etc, in her paper. I proof-read her paper and was in shock at the themes she discovered while reading this amazing Shel Silverstein book! There was no way I believed her until I read it again, as a more experienced adult, and realized that these messages could very well be what this story is about.
I agree with you 100%, Danielle, when you said "If every person looked into hidden messages from books and from movies as well, I do believe that fairy tales, and young children’s imaginations would slowly diminish." Even as a 19 year old, I find my favorite stories and movies as less appealing when I am aware of these "disturbing" messages and pictures. I do not think we should ban such movies and books just because underlying messages exist in some peoples' eyes. These forms of entertainment are magical and classics that I believe help students more than they harm them.
Growing up, I was a huge fan of Shel Silverstein's works. The Giving Tree, in particular, was a favorite of mine. It was not until class last week when I was confronted with the idea that maybe one of my favorite books contained a hidden meaning. To be honest, it almost made me mad that we were accusing this wonderful children's book of being something it was not. I quickly realized that as much as I wanted everything from my childhood to be innocent and sweet, the world does not work that way. Although I feel that the underlying meaning in The Giving Tree may be a bit of a stretch, I do not disagree that there is something there. After doing the readers response reading where it was made clear to me that your perspective of something changes as you experience new things,I am realizing that my experiences in life are changing my views on things that I once thought of in a very different way.
I do not believe that we should stop reading these classics to our students and children. After all, Disney movies and books like the Giving Tree are what made many of our childhood's so exciting. To this day they bring us peace of mind and a feeling of innocence when we sit down and watch or read them. But we should be sure to explain to the children we share these classics with that these stories are not the only way something can or should happen. Although they may not pick up on these hidden messages right away, I feel it is better to educate them from an early age. I'm not saying we need to teach them that these are horrible books and movies, but that it would not hurt to mention that maybe Cinderella didn't REALLY need a prince to be happy and well, or that the young boy should have appreciated all that his Giving Tree had to offer.
I think everyone in college has been introduced at least once to the idea of stereotypes in Disney. Media is one of the largest sources of stereotypes out there in today’s society and I think people don’t want to believe that these stereotypes would be found in children’s media. But when it is pointed out that a company like Disney is not perfect, people also choose to believe that these movies have no affect on children.
In my opinion, thinking that a movie does not have a profound effect on a child is ridiculous. Kids dress up like their favorite Disney stars for Halloween every year, they play with toys made from Disney movies, read books and watch television shows made from Disney, and the list goes on and on. Personally, I loved the Disney princesses. I dressed up as Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, Pocahontas, and Esmeralda. I watched the Aladdin and the Little Mermaid religiously. I used to act like Cinderella pretending to clean my house and I always wished that the animals would help me clean too (not exaggerating).
My point is, I know I was not the only one captivated enough by Disney to repeat what I saw. In almost every Disney movie you watch, the women are either cleaning or cooking or surrounded by children, enforcing the housewife stereotype. Women go at great lengths to be with the ones they love, their entire plot lines focus around getting married or finding their true love. It is ok for a woman to want a relationship and children, yet it should never be a decision forced upon them.
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